tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post3187095193548492744..comments2023-05-27T02:33:34.320-07:00Comments on Nikon CLS Practical Guide: 3. Nikon TTL-BL FlashRuss MacDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comBlogger187125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-17945945273146247322014-06-23T11:32:51.953-07:002014-06-23T11:32:51.953-07:00Hi Russ
Great blog and great patience shown by you...Hi Russ<br />Great blog and great patience shown by you in the comments section. <br />I shoot almost exclusively in camera Manual mode. Is TTL-BL just TTL if I'm in camera manual mode? I.e. does being in camera manual de-couple the camera/flash conversation? <br /><br />I'm actually more comfortable in manual flash and camera mode but there are times that TTL is desirable such as at a wedding or event where the subject is not static. In that case I stay in camera manual but use TTL bounce flash (as espoused by Tangents blog) and it works nicely for me. <br />I suppose your article has got me thinking about when I might use TTL-BL and I think the answer might be never given my shooting style?<br />Thanks for a brilliant blog and expert analysis of the Nikon flash system. <br />Cheers<br />DudleyUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15474828800009999822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-19706650087429642092013-09-26T02:08:02.194-07:002013-09-26T02:08:02.194-07:00Thank you for making your expertise available.
If...Thank you for making your expertise available. <br />If you ever make a synthetic documentation about Nikon Flash system, that would definitively be a great hit, and more practical to read than blog entries and comments... (And yes, I will preorder one for me, and volunteer to create a french translation, too).<br />But if your are aware of such a booklet existing already that summarise it all, that would be nice, too. <br />Thank you for sharing your knowledge.missumlauthttp://www.missumlaut.frnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-1217522262349097742012-05-06T03:01:45.969-07:002012-05-06T03:01:45.969-07:00Hi Russ,
I have been practising your methods since...Hi Russ,<br />I have been practising your methods since the day I discovered your website with success and joy.<br />Thx again for these great explanations about the flash photography and making such a complex topic easier and fun.<br />I have learned a lot from your blogs and continue learning...<br /><br />Some (not every) of my flash photos lack sharpness which I have just realized and I wanted to get your opinion about the possible reasons for that.<br /><br />below is the exif data of a flash photo which I found it soft although it had to be very sharp with the settings below...<br /><br />nikon d7000<br />on a tripod<br />vr off<br />35mm nikkor lens<br /><br />f9<br />1/250s<br />programmed auto<br />matrix metering<br />iso 100<br />af-s <br />wide area<br /><br />sb600<br />i-ttl-bl<br />front curtain<br />-0.3ev<br /><br />april<br />17:19 pm<br />sunny and bright weather<br />sun is behind the camera<br /><br />the only possible reason that I can think of is:<br />I set the camera to self timer mode and set it to 8 photos with a 2 second delay.<br />(But I am pretty sure that the flash triggered on each 8 photos)<br />and I can say 5 or 6 of the 8 are not sharp enough.<br /><br />can this lack of sharpness be bec of this self timer settings or not?<br />I really wonder what causes this?<br /><br />thx, take care<br />Melih Cavlimelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932530051575162066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-36081239144515839152012-05-05T15:33:22.866-07:002012-05-05T15:33:22.866-07:00Sorry I thought the system was brokenSorry I thought the system was brokenmelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932530051575162066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-81179033167127117412012-05-05T02:44:03.248-07:002012-05-05T02:44:03.248-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932530051575162066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-29184396135232311512012-05-05T02:43:33.532-07:002012-05-05T02:43:33.532-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932530051575162066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-2221878305375711012012-05-05T02:43:20.296-07:002012-05-05T02:43:20.296-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932530051575162066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-11122648096025062302012-05-05T02:43:10.061-07:002012-05-05T02:43:10.061-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932530051575162066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-46955076231896533102012-05-05T02:42:35.944-07:002012-05-05T02:42:35.944-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05932530051575162066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-74723992872165244142011-09-04T10:19:16.166-07:002011-09-04T10:19:16.166-07:00Hi Honk,
I'm glad it's clear now!
Thanks...Hi Honk,<br /><br />I'm glad it's clear now!<br /><br />Thanks for the nice feedback!<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-58197213910177282492011-09-04T07:42:26.045-07:002011-09-04T07:42:26.045-07:00Hi Russ,
bow! Absolutely perfect.
The difference ...Hi Russ,<br /><br />bow! Absolutely perfect.<br />The difference between light-meter and meter measurement circuit and it's impact to the flash was (for me) not clear (enough) till now.<br /><br />PS: Some wish a book. But this blog is far better due to the direct response from a flash guru to questions. Incredible blog.<br /><br />Regards,<br />HonkHonknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-896917494971826762011-09-04T06:18:11.212-07:002011-09-04T06:18:11.212-07:00Hi again Honk,
My comment about the flash power c...Hi again Honk,<br /><br />My comment about the flash power changing as the aperture changes is common to all TTL. It has no special significance to TTL-BL. In other words, what ever power the flash decides it needs to light the subject at its chosen value must change if all you do is change the aperture. If you close down the aperture, the TTL or TTL-BL flash will increase flash power to attain the same amount of lighting on the subject.<br /><br />The flash power has nothing to do with the light meter indicator in the camera. The light meter indicator has no connection to the flash. The light meter indicator measures only the ambient light and that will also change as you change the aperture (and the shutter).<br /><br />It can be confusing when you change the aperture. Assume you stop it down two stops. That will decrease the ambient contribution to the image by two stops but the flash will increase power to apply the same flash contribution to THE SUBJECT. Now, if the subject was receiving some ambient to start with, and the ambient decreased by two stops, that will make the subject darker as well as the background. The flash will still add exactly the same amount of light, but the end result will be that the subject becomes darker.<br /><br />The only exposure control on the camera that affects both the flash and the exposure is the camera EV button.<br /><br />TTL-BL doesn't not receive information from the camera meter indicator. It receives information from the meter measurement circuit inside the camera prior to the point where it goes to the meter. Changes to the aperture and shutter affect the meter indicator but they do not affect the flash power. Changes to the EV affect the meter measurement circuit and therefore affect both the flash and the meter indicator (which in turn affect the aperture and shutter to make the meter center).<br /><br />Maybe that is clearer.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-7921106215767444132011-09-04T04:13:06.149-07:002011-09-04T04:13:06.149-07:00Hi Russ,
I'm almost completely with you:
Doe...Hi Russ,<br /><br />I'm almost completely with you:<br /><br />Does the sentence "as you change the aperture the flash power changes to KEEP the subject exposed at the SAME LEVEL" say: <br /><br />a) ligth-meter is shifted from zero to, let's say, -2 f-stops = flash-power will automatically shift the same way (-2 f-stops to *balance fore-/background*: Subject may be underexposed)<br /><br />b) ligth-meter is shifted from zero to -2 f-stops = flash-power will counterbalance the changed aperture and background is darker but subject is lighted as with light meter in zero position/"as before" (= "effective" power on the subject is always the same {same=as in light meter zero position})<br /><br />When (b) is correct (I tested yesterday and I assume), isn't the following conclusion an antagonism to the conclusion above?<br /><br />"So, if you have the camera in Manual, and you are not setting {comment by Honk: to zero? Or is Cam ev-correction meant?} it per the light meter, then the flash will be balancing to the wrong thing." -> I think, TTL-BL will always assume the meter is zeroed or rather in/decrease the power? So "balancing to the wrong think" is my stumbling block.<br /><br />PS: TTL-BL is like law code. Every tiny word from your blog has to be analyzed or the chance getting wrong is big.<br /><br />Servus,<br />HonkHonknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-44963267762945502422011-09-03T15:39:54.966-07:002011-09-03T15:39:54.966-07:00To anonymous (wish you would sign your name):
I d...To anonymous (wish you would sign your name):<br /><br />I don't have an SB-700 to try, but as far as I know, it is fully compatible with the D80, both on and off camera. You have a commander buit-in to your D80 that will fire your SB-700 and your SB-600 exactly the same way. You just have to put them in 'Remote' mode. They both use the same CLS system. Where did you get the idea that the SB-700 is not compatible with the D80?<br /><br />Also the FV on the SB-700 is exactly them same as the FV on the SB-600. They both change the effective flash power by one stop. That means they are the same.<br /><br />The reason that there is no selector on the SB-700 to change it from TTL to TTL-BL, is for simplification. When you are in Matrix or center weighted metering mode, TTL-BL is automatically selected. When you are in Spot metering mode, regular TTL is selected. The SB-600 works exactly the same way if you set it to TTL-BL to start with while in Spot metering mode.<br /><br />So, the way you use this is that when you want the flash to be the primary light source (ie, low ambient conditions), you select Spot metering. When you want the flash to add fill, you select Matrix metering.<br /><br />However, as I have mentioned, Nikon has improved the TTL-BL mode in the newer cameras to the point that it comes close to being a universal mode. The D80 still has some of the older system, so it won't work as well in TTL-BL as a newer camera when in low ambient conditions. If you want the best pictures possible, switch the camera to spot mode and manual whenever in low ambient conditions.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-54536526976906645792011-09-03T15:13:51.650-07:002011-09-03T15:13:51.650-07:00Hi Honk,
'use M, TTL-BL, aim at the sky and u...Hi Honk,<br /><br />'use M, TTL-BL, aim at the sky and underexpose one stop' means to use the light meter inside the camera and adjust the aperture and/or shutter to underexpose by one stop.<br /><br />When you do this, the effective flash power does NOT change. The flash assumes the camera light meter is zeroed. This means that the sky will darken a bit while allowing the subject to remain at the same brightness.<br /><br />I say 'effective' flash power, because as you change the aperture the flash power changes to keep the subject exposed at the same level. Changing the shutter does not affect the flash power in any respect.<br /><br />The reason you have to darken the sky this is that the camera tends to overexpose the sky in Matrix metering in an attempt to bring out the subject which is always much darker than the sky. By underexposing the sky, it ends up at about the correct brightness. However, this should only be considered a starting point. In different situations, you might need up to two stops underexposed to get the image that looks most natural.<br /><br />The important point to understand is that if you are in camera manual mode and you change the shutter or aperture, the meter in the camera will change, but the effective flash power remains exactly the same.<br /><br />However, if you change the camera ev it will cause the effective flash power to change by the same amount as the camera.<br /><br />Then, if you change the ev on the flash, only the flash power will change.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-67013358237099467082011-09-03T13:39:04.420-07:002011-09-03T13:39:04.420-07:00Hi Russ!
Thanks to this blog I learned to underst...Hi Russ!<br /><br />Thanks to this blog I learned to understand Nikon's flash reasoning and how to improve my photography as a result. The problem I am now having occurs as a result of upgrading my camera from a D80 to the new D7000 and I also upgraded my flash from a SB600 to an SB700. I still kept my D80 and SB600 as I still want to use them.<br /><br />There are some issues however.<br />1. The SB700 is not compatible with older cameras such as the D80 in CLS off camera mode.<br />2. The FV compensation on the SB700 is not the same as the compensation on the SB600. TTL-BL is my favourite mode and I often set it to -1.7ev for fill flash. This setting is 1.0 stop to bright with my D80 and 11/3 stops brighter on my D7000. No matter if you are in aperture mode or manual, the SB700 flash seems to bias the exposure of both the ambient and the flash. I find myself having to use a fill flash setting of -2.7 to -3.00 for my Sb700 to be equivalent to my former -1.7 ev.<br />3.The new SB700 defaults to TTL-BL and cannot be changed to straight TTL as unless you switch to spot metering. The new SB700 therefore automatically switches from TTL-BL to TTL as it sees fit according to some new algorithm but never lets you know what mode it is in as TTL-BL is continually displayed.<br />Soooo...Do you have any info which explains what is going on with this obvious change in the method of calculating exposure for the new flashes.<br />Hope you understand my gibberish here and thanks for keeping such a great resource for us amateursAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-10465981792051697742011-09-03T13:19:41.993-07:002011-09-03T13:19:41.993-07:00Hello Russ,
thank you very much for fast reply.
T...Hello Russ,<br /><br />thank you very much for fast reply.<br />The last days I'm reading (and testing/writing down in my scrapbook) a lot and I'm sorry to have another question about influence of light-meter adjustments to TTL-BL:<br /><br />On "Sep. 29, 2008 8:00 AM" you wrote in the part "SEMI-AUTOMATIC", (pic should be: model in front of a bright sky), 'use M, TTL-BL, aim at the sky and underexpose one stop' (I think you mean via light-meter).<br /><br />On Apr. 2, 2009 6:49 AM, you wrote:<br />"So, if you have the camera in Manual, and you are not setting it per the light meter, then the flash will be balancing to the wrong thing."<br /><br />What I understand till now:<br />When I adjust the meter to 0, the TTL-BL will work "as expected" (like in P, A ..).<br />When I adjust the meter to minus or plus, the TTL-BL will try to balance foreground and background, so the foreground (the subject) will getting darker, when I put a minus correction to the meter.<br /><br />My question (also referring to Nov. 30, 2008 3:15 PM): When e.g. a minus 'correction' to the meter will influence the TTL-BL to decrease the power (like -ev in the cam will do), is't it better to use TTL instead of TTL-BL due to unpredictable results? When TTL-BL will be adjusted automatically to the manual light-meter adjustment, I always have to correct TTL-BL (+ or -). In TTL not (except of the influence of ambient light).<br /><br />But, could this be the answer: Maybe standard TTL is not a good choice, because it doesn't know anything about the ambient(-influence), so TTL-BL is "safer" (less risk for overexposing the subject). <br /><br />And allow me one technically question for better understanding: You wrote that TTL-BL assumes in M the light-meter is zeroed. It has no info about aperture nor shutter. What kind of info is send to the flash computer with "light-meter zero"? The whole ambient EV, say "overall brightness is xy ev?<br /><br />Greetings,<br />HonkHonknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-91095471291476267372011-09-02T05:41:55.801-07:002011-09-02T05:41:55.801-07:00Hi Honk,
Yes, the whole issue of when to use TTL-...Hi Honk,<br /><br />Yes, the whole issue of when to use TTL-BL is confusing. I wrote my blog #4 based on my D200, and at that time TTL-BL gave truely horrible results if used in low ambient conditions. However, as time has passed, TTL-BL has been improved.<br /><br />In each new camera, TTL-BL comes closer and closer to a general purpose mode. However, even in the newest of cameras, TTL-BL is not as consistant as regular TTL, when you want the flash to be primary. TTL-BL still underexposes quite often under those conditions.<br /><br />The original purpose of TTL-BL was to balance the flash with the ambient, and that is what it still does best. Balancing the flash with the ambient is just another way of saying that you are adding fill, which is most often done outdoors in daylight. That is when TTL-BL really works great.<br /><br />Thanks for the nice feedback, and I will try to find some time to work on blogs 3 and 4 to clarify this issue.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-19652066955426089892011-09-02T01:30:40.181-07:002011-09-02T01:30:40.181-07:00Hello Russ,
you've heard this at least a thou...Hello Russ,<br /><br />you've heard this at least a thousand times, but once more: Your blog is the best information about all tech. specs and background to Nikon flash/CLS system! McNally is like Jamie Oliver for photography, Chris Orwig the philosopher and you are the first who explain all the background, the fundamentals. <br /><br />After all these words, one question for understanding:<br />In chapter 3 of your blog, you say at April 5, 2011, 1:04PM as reply to "Thomas Munch" (he asked why TTL-BL result to a good pic, even when the background is completely dark and there is nothing to fill): <br />"In the specific case you mentioned; ie, completely dark, latest generation TTL-BL works quite well. When the metering detects a completely dark edge around the frame, it assumes that the ambient is zero, so it switches to a pseudo-Regular TTL mode and selects a flash brightness to make the flash primary based mostly on the distance."<br /><br />In chapter 4 you write: <br />"TTL-BL is for fill flash ONLY, like outdoors in bright ambient light. TTL-BL is not designed for use as primary light.<br />(...)<br />If you use TTL-BL in low ambient conditions, you will get unpredictable results, usually underexposed. Using FV Lock in this situation would only make things worse."<br /><br />I think I don't understand the difference between the two statements deeply.<br />I mean, why I can't or shouldn't use TTL-BL in dark conditions.<br />Like explained in chapter 3, I would leave the flash in TTL-BL (as in former times and the results are quite OK) due to the "pseudo TTL-mode" which the flash will choose. But with the info from chapter 4 I get confused :-)<br /><br />But maybe the second sentence ("unpredictable results") is for older cams like my D200, due to newer ones use a more sophisticated TTL-BL measurement?<br /><br />Servus,<br />HonkHonknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-48288849266458589842011-06-26T13:05:36.604-07:002011-06-26T13:05:36.604-07:00Hi Maurizio,
I'm glad you find my articles he...Hi Maurizio,<br /><br />I'm glad you find my articles helpful.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-32912035561552404312011-06-26T13:04:36.344-07:002011-06-26T13:04:36.344-07:00Hi criticpapa,
Thanks for the kind feedback!
Rus...Hi criticpapa,<br /><br />Thanks for the kind feedback!<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-57894625611524429872011-06-26T07:57:03.910-07:002011-06-26T07:57:03.910-07:00Thank you very much. I'am Italian and live in ...Thank you very much. I'am Italian and live in Trieste. I have a D90 with SB900. Yours explications open a new world and it's more easy understand the different flash use. i always read your post. (sorry for my english). Good bye.Maurizionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-50595756292896738572011-06-18T13:15:01.583-07:002011-06-18T13:15:01.583-07:00Hi Russ,
Reading your answer and giving it some m...Hi Russ,<br /><br />Reading your answer and giving it some more thought, I think the winning argument is "TTL is supposed to be simple and basic".<br /><br />TTL-BL MUST use distance info, as solely counting on the monitor pre-flash readings was probably found to be problematic (due to inaccurate readings in bright ambient).<br /><br />However this has nothing to do with the TTL design which is kept "basic and simple".<br /><br />Again, many many thanks for a great guide - a wonderful resource which I keep visiting once in a while.Samuelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-28583181111599597792011-06-18T09:35:55.303-07:002011-06-18T09:35:55.303-07:00Hi Samuel,
I was reading your question closer, an...Hi Samuel,<br /><br />I was reading your question closer, and wanted to more directly address it.<br /><br />The reason the designers did not want to include distance as well as preflash in regular TTL is that it wouldn't work too well.<br /><br />Think about the situation where you are focused on the background, but you have a person in the foreground. How would such a system decide whether to use the distance or the monitor preflash to determine the flash power?<br /><br />I'm sure there is some way to define it, but regular TTL is supposed to be simple and basic. All photographers know how to use regular TTL in its traditional form.<br /><br />TTL-BL is where all the fancy decision making takes place. In fact TTL-BL works so well on the newest crop of cameras and flashes that it is the default standard. Regular TTL still works better in medium ambient conditions (parties, receptions, weddings, etc.), but someday TTL-BL may be able to equal it.<br /><br />Of course the key to successful flash with regular TTL requires total understanding of how it works. One of the key things is that regular TTL does not take the ambient into consideration, so you have to increase shutter speed to eliminate the ambient.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-44794339345974888772011-06-18T08:13:14.210-07:002011-06-18T08:13:14.210-07:00Hi Samuel,
An early system that Nikon tried was D...Hi Samuel,<br /><br />An early system that Nikon tried was D-TTL which relied only on distance. However, it did not work that well and was abandoned in favor of the monitor flash system that regular TTL uses today. I'm not sure why it didn't work well, but it didn't. Msybe it was due to the fact that it didn't work with non-D lenses.Russ MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.com