tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post2840936376217681498..comments2023-05-27T02:33:34.320-07:00Comments on Nikon CLS Practical Guide: 5. A Study in Camera Compensation when using Flash in TTL ModeRuss MacDonaldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-3236802876813500312017-12-23T19:23:41.496-08:002017-12-23T19:23:41.496-08:00Russ, I first read your post almost 10 years ago, ...Russ, I first read your post almost 10 years ago, and I keep on coming back to it. I again read it today and could appreciate it much better than I appreciated 10 years ago. Very thorough, very scientific, nicely explained article on most difficult to understand subject. The only other post I found valuable on flash photography is by NeilVan Neikerk. Thanks so much Russ, You are greatSinghGentlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00138466803413391830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-66977605833413247882017-12-23T19:23:25.754-08:002017-12-23T19:23:25.754-08:00Russ, I first read your post almost 10 years ago, ...Russ, I first read your post almost 10 years ago, and I keep on coming back to it. I again read it today and could appreciate it much better than I appreciated 10 years ago. Very thorough, very scientific, nicely explained article on most difficult to understand subject. The only other post I found valuable on flash photography is by NeilVan Neikerk. Thanks so much Russ, You are greatSinghGentlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00138466803413391830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-5205340819512629432017-12-23T19:23:15.719-08:002017-12-23T19:23:15.719-08:00Russ, I first read your post almost 10 years ago, ...Russ, I first read your post almost 10 years ago, and I keep on coming back to it. I again read it today and could appreciate it much better than I appreciated 10 years ago. Very thorough, very scientific, nicely explained article on most difficult to understand subject. The only other post I found valuable on flash photography is by NeilVan Neikerk. Thanks so much Russ, You are greatSinghGentlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00138466803413391830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-58480739734088925022017-12-23T19:22:36.492-08:002017-12-23T19:22:36.492-08:00Russ, I first read your post almost 10 years ago, ...Russ, I first read your post almost 10 years ago, and I keep on coming back to it. I again read it today and could appreciate it much better than I appreciated 10 years ago. Very thorough, very scientific, nicely explained article on most difficult to understand subject. The only other post I found valuable on flash photography is by NeilVan Neikerk. Thanks so much Russ, You are greatSinghGentlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00138466803413391830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-49451713297156849142012-12-28T23:57:47.708-08:002012-12-28T23:57:47.708-08:00Russ,
I stand corrected. I lowered the flash shu...Russ,<br /><br />I stand corrected. I lowered the flash shutter speed to 15", using custom setting e2, and then the shutter worked as in your example.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />BobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-25293229361377469722012-12-28T23:47:39.478-08:002012-12-28T23:47:39.478-08:00Russ,
I just tried the A Mode example with my D3s...Russ,<br /><br />I just tried the A Mode example with my D3s and an SB-900 and the shutter speed never changed from 60th of a second.<br /><br />Does this only work on the D200 or am I doing something wrong?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-63834804393734510422012-05-15T20:52:39.078-07:002012-05-15T20:52:39.078-07:00Russ,
Thanks for these blogs.
I learnt that in c...Russ,<br /><br />Thanks for these blogs.<br /><br />I learnt that in camera manual mode that changes to camera ev have no effect (which is obvious in retrospect :)).<br /><br />Also, changes to camera ev are also to FEC. Now I can darken the background without darkening the subject. Thanks again.<br /><br />Cheers,<br />SuzySuzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09896116743177598911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-62452596419550791672012-05-15T20:48:05.971-07:002012-05-15T20:48:05.971-07:00TestTestSuzyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09896116743177598911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-24136991620768431442011-12-26T08:05:00.900-08:002011-12-26T08:05:00.900-08:00Hi g,
Thank you for the nice feedback on my artic...Hi g,<br /><br />Thank you for the nice feedback on my articles. I'm glad you find them useful.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-34651667376247810682011-12-26T04:14:44.573-08:002011-12-26T04:14:44.573-08:00Russ, your blog has been an eyeopener. The best re...Russ, your blog has been an eyeopener. The best resource I have found on flash. Thank you so much. I will keep the questions coming as I go through your blog.<br /><br />Happy new year.ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16174623081833313016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-67021052697166785212010-08-20T05:15:07.312-07:002010-08-20T05:15:07.312-07:00Hi Rod,
Yes, that is exactly right!
I should hav...Hi Rod,<br /><br />Yes, that is exactly right!<br /><br />I should have mentioned that changes to the Flash EC do not affect the camera EV.<br /><br />Just to add a bit more detail: when I say I leave the Camera FEC at 0.0, I'm talking about the flash compensation setting on the camera, and not the Camera EV.<br /><br />The Camera EV affects both the flash and the camera, but the Camera FEC affects only the flash.<br /><br />The Camera FEC is exactly like the FEC on the flash itself and it adds to it. Neither one of those FEC settings affects the Camera settings, and the ambient remains unchanged.<br /><br />Thanks for pointing that out!<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-59236054081142744342010-08-20T03:12:26.914-07:002010-08-20T03:12:26.914-07:00Hi Russ,
Thank you for your insightful blogs. I r...Hi Russ,<br />Thank you for your insightful blogs. I read the threads with great interest. I note your response to Greg on 30/7/09 and quote:<br /><br />"So, my personal rule is to leave the camera FEC at 0.0 and make all my adjustments on the flash itself, where what I see on the back of the flash is what I get."<br /><br />I infer from this that compensation made directly on the flash is not added to Camera EV. <br /><br />So if camera is in matrix/TTL/AV mode, EV=-2 and flash=-1, then background will be -2 stops and subject -3 stops.<br /><br />Have I understood your comment correctly?<br /><br />RodAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-82026368326283744742009-09-13T12:24:26.771-07:002009-09-13T12:24:26.771-07:00nanikanl,
You are right.
The shutter that does n...nanikanl,<br /><br />You are right.<br /><br />The shutter that does not affect the power of the flash.<br /><br />The aperture does affect the power of the flash.<br /><br />Changes in either shutter or aperture do not affect the BRIGHTNESS OF THE SUBJECT. They both affect the brightness of the background.<br /><br />When you set the aperture very small, like f/22, your flash is not powerful enough to light the subject properly.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-54569300189880385452009-09-13T12:07:05.650-07:002009-09-13T12:07:05.650-07:00Hello Russ, for a little thing I have another sens...Hello Russ, for a little thing I have another sense.<br /><br />""If you are using camera Manual mode, changes to the aperture and shutter will not affect the flash power. The flash will always balance its power using the metering data, which is not affected by the shutter or aperture.""<br /><br />I take some photos for testing,<br />I prefer changing the aperture or shutter WOULD affect flash power since the TTL metering system is depend on f-value, shutter speed and ISO.<br /><br />The experiment I took is fixing 1/200s, ISO800, with f-value varies from f5.6 to f32.<br /><br />And the centered subject is ALMOST have same brightness.(say, I did not examine it very carefully by checking histograms.)<br /><br />Only for some cases the image will become darker that f-value form f22 to f32. I guess it results from the GN of my built-in flash is not enough power to lighten the subject.<br /><br />I not sure, but I guess shutter speed, apertures may be related to the "through the lens" metering system.<br /><br />For your reference.nanikanlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-12291657207860393042009-09-13T05:56:30.438-07:002009-09-13T05:56:30.438-07:00Hi again nanikanl,
Using a flash outdoors in high...Hi again nanikanl,<br /><br />Using a flash outdoors in high ambient light conditions is much more difficult than indoors in normal indoor artificial lighting.<br /><br />You are exactly right. If you have a correct exposure set on the camera and you turn on your flash, it will overexpose the brightest areas. Even if you set the FEC to -3.0 FEC, it will still add to the ambient exposure (just a very little bit).<br /><br />However, think about a situation where the background is bright and the subject is in the shade. In other words the subject is backlighted.<br /><br />Now, if you set the camera for a correct exposure for the background, the subject will be dark. This is when you want fill flash.<br /><br />This is also the situation that TTL-BL was made for. TTL-BL, will set the camera automatically for the background and add just the right amount of flash to make the brightness of the subject equal the background. You can use the camera in one of the auto modes, or you can use camera manual and use the built-in light meter.<br /><br />However, for TTL-BL to work best always use Matrix metering - you can't even select TTL-BL if you use Spot metering.<br /><br />Then, use the FEC to increase or decrease the brightness of the subject and the camera EC to increase or decrease the brightness of the whole image (or if in camera manual mode, just change the aperture or shutter to change the background brightness). <br /><br />If you are using one of the camera automatic modes, and you adjust camera ec to darken the background by 1 ev, then you will have to brighten the flash by 1 ev to bring the subject back to standard brightness. If you are using camera Manual mode, changes to the aperture and shutter will not affect the flash power. The flash will always balance its power using the metering data, which is not affected by the shutter or aperture.<br /><br />You must always be thinking when using flash outdoors. Never use fill flash if any direct sunlight is hitting the subject. The flash will add to it just as you said. Always try to get the subject in the shade and use flash to brighten the face.<br /><br />Hope that helps,<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-20366988530841169162009-09-13T00:49:16.740-07:002009-09-13T00:49:16.740-07:00Thank you very much, Russ!
So back to the beginnin...Thank you very much, Russ!<br />So back to the beginning question, which I want to clarify.<br /><br />Since flash light can only add more lights to exposures. The situation now changes to the outdoor with enough ambient light.<br /><br />This time, if I know f4 and 1/100th is the correct exposure(for centered subject) as I want without flash.<br /><br />It would cause what if now I turn on flash?<br /><br />To simplify the question,<br /><br />If now I already have enough and right exposure without flash, what would FEC/EC do(M-mode)? Especially for negative FEC/EC since it could not darker the image now.<br /><br />Thanks again.nanikanlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-43726212160827052112009-09-12T16:50:22.219-07:002009-09-12T16:50:22.219-07:00Hi again nanikanl,
Darker than 'standard brig...Hi again nanikanl,<br /><br />Darker than 'standard brightness' means darker than what the camera/flash chose as the correct exposure.<br /><br />Standard brightness = what the camera THINKS is correct exposure.<br /><br />However, in many cases you want the image darker or brighter than what the camera choses. That's when you apply FEC or EC to change it.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-42542748276042322252009-09-12T13:46:31.969-07:002009-09-12T13:46:31.969-07:00Hi there, I know exactly what your mean in your la...Hi there, I know exactly what your mean in your latest comment.<br /><br />I know in M-mode, change EC has no effect unless we prepare a flash.<br /><br />And in M-mode with i-TTL,<br />thought EC has no effect on camera exposure(say, shutter, ISO, aperture), but it can send information to the flash, adjust the power outputs, just like what FEC does.<br /><br />I think all above is OK.<br /><br />My main & beginning question is:<br /><br />I choose M-mode & spot-metering,<br />the built-in flash is set i-TTL.<br />In this situation, the subject(in the center) will be light up to the correct exposure.<br />And at this time, negative FEC/EC may cause subject darker.<br />Darker than what? Darker than 'standard brightness'.<br />And 'standard brightness' means the correct exposure as above?<br /><br />Is that correct?<br /><br />I'm thankful for your explanation!<br />Rally!nanikanlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-84915618168636317332009-09-12T13:01:52.131-07:002009-09-12T13:01:52.131-07:00Hi again nanikanl,
I think you have some fundamen...Hi again nanikanl,<br /><br />I think you have some fundamental misunderstandings.<br /><br />I think you may not understand that FEC only applies to the flash. It has nothing to do with the camera or the ambient.<br /><br />There are two separate exposures for all flash pictures: one from the flash and one from the ambient. The two exposures are made on top of each other and add together.<br /><br />The shutter, ISO, and aperture control the ambient exposure.<br /><br />The TTL flash metering system controls the flash exposure.<br /><br />FEC only affects the TTL metering system, which causes the power of the flash to change.<br /><br />When you adjust the EC on the camera, it affects the ambient metering system and changes the shutter or aperture. Changes to EC are also sent to the flash metering system so that flash power will change up or down as the ambient exposure is changed..<br /><br />When you adjust the FEC on the flash it does NOT adjust the EC of the camera.<br /><br />When you set FEC=0 on the flash, the TTL metering will automatically adjust the flash power to expose the subject to 'standard' brightness.<br /><br />I don't know any more ways to say this.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-74419691220155850152009-09-12T11:42:28.597-07:002009-09-12T11:42:28.597-07:00Thanks for your instant answer!
Maybe I totally mi...Thanks for your instant answer!<br />Maybe I totally misunderstood something!<br />May I say FEC=0 is a value depends on standard brightness, or say the ambient light in P/A/S-mode, or camera exposure controls set by user in M-mode?<br /><br />Or, FEC=0 is a value depends on 'standard brightness', which is a power of flash that can brighten a subject in a completely dark dark room as you said.<br /><br />I think I should check my idea SBS!<br /><br />Thanks again!nanikanlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-17995520841514651982009-09-12T09:33:03.185-07:002009-09-12T09:33:03.185-07:00Hi nanikanl,
I'm sorry, but I am having troub...Hi nanikanl,<br /><br />I'm sorry, but I am having trouble understanding your question. Let me try to explain again.<br /><br />In regular TTL mode: When you set 0.0 FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) on the flash, it will fire the flash at a power that will illuminate the SUBJECT at 'standard brightness' assuming the ambient is zero. If the ambient is more than zero, then the flash and ambient will add and overexposure of the subject may result. This is why you must apply negative FEC unless you take the ambient out of the equation with the camera exposure controls (ISO, shutter, aperture).<br /><br />Standard brightness is the brightness of the subject when a flash picture is taken at 0.0 FEC in a completely dark room.<br /><br />The flash can only brighten an image. It cannot darken the image. Negative FEC will make the flash fire at a lower power than standard, but it will always fire and add to the ambient. For instance, -1.0 FEC will fire the flash at 1/2 the power from what it would have fired at 0.0 FEC.<br /><br />When taking flash pictures, you should reduce the ambient portion of the exposure (using the ISO, shutter, aperture) by two to three stops, which effectively removes the ambient from the subject, and then the flash at 0.0 FEC brings the subject back to standard brightness.<br /><br />I'm not sure if I answered your question or not.<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-1519776502464116692009-09-12T08:40:38.076-07:002009-09-12T08:40:38.076-07:00Hi there, appreciate for your answer.
I think I ca...Hi there, appreciate for your answer.<br />I think I catch what your wrote,<br />--<br />When the FEC is set to negative numbers, it darkens the image FROM THE STANDARD BRIGHTNESS that is set by the flash exposure system when it is set to 0.0 ev.<br />--<br />Does THE STANDARD BRIGHTNESS mean 0.0 ev? Cause that is what in my idea.<br /><br />As the quote goes, may I say that<br />negative-FEC is equal to zero-FEC, with no flash occurs and exposures only by camera manual settings (shutter speed, F-stop).<br /><br />It's strange since the camera still fires flash at 0-FEM... :(<br /><br />Thank you very much, looking forward to your answer. :)nanikanlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-40903803366733159012009-09-07T15:48:49.463-07:002009-09-07T15:48:49.463-07:00Hi Nanikanl,
I'm not sure I completely unders...Hi Nanikanl,<br /><br />I'm not sure I completely understand your question, but I will answer what I think you are asking.<br /><br />I think that you may have not have fully understood what I wrote.<br /><br />The FEC button adjusts only the power of the flash.<br /><br />The camera EC button adjusts the power of the flash, plus it adjusts the camera exposure (shutter and aperture) when using camera P,S, or A modes.<br /><br />In camera M mode, the camera EC button changes the flash power exactly like the FEC button, but it does not affect the camera exposure (shutter and aperture) , because that is being set manually by the photographer.<br /><br />When the FEC is set to negative numbers, it darkens the image FROM THE STANDARD BRIGHTNESS that is set by the flash exposure system when it is set to 0.0 ev.<br /><br />Hope that helps,<br /><br />RussRuss MacDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288785902650834143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-19391116585508528792009-09-07T06:59:37.838-07:002009-09-07T06:59:37.838-07:00Thx Russ, for the brilliant masterpiece!
I just co...Thx Russ, for the brilliant masterpiece!<br />I just come up a little question with FEC and expect to clarify my idea.<br /><br />As the conclusion goes, FEC have the same effect as Camera EV adjustment.<br />But it's obvious that flash would always lighten the subject rather than make them darker.<br />So if I choose M-mode, how does I set a negative FEC make sense?<br /><br />Best regards,<br />Joenanikanlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9113726419970930271.post-30461389133399811382009-08-01T09:53:58.562-07:002009-08-01T09:53:58.562-07:00Thanks Russ! What I am doing these days is I used ...Thanks Russ! What I am doing these days is I used the SB900, and have it in TTL mode and set the value on the screen (say -1.3 or whatever), then other times I incorporate one or two additional SB600's remotely, so I switch the 900 in master mode and it has a whole range of settings for the three flashes. So its kind of convenient because it remembers each FEC separately. <br /><br />However I always sort of wonder if the TTL on each flash is really working and at times switch to manual mode and trial and error to get things right.The Coyote https://www.blogger.com/profile/07907822144727743930noreply@blogger.com